Falcon and Winter Soldier episode 4!

[chase_acow]

The Whole World is Watching - John Walker loses patience with Sam and Bucky as they learn more about Karli Morgenthau.

Poll #25526 The Whole World is Watching!

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 18

View Respondents

Immediate post episode reaction?

View Answers

shit
2 (11.8%)

holy shit
5 (29.4%)

holy forking shirt balls
10 (58.8%)

favorite moments?

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Flashback Bucky in Wakanda.
17 (94.4%)

Sam using his counseling skills.
14 (77.8%)

Walker pocketing the serum.
0 (0.0%)

Dora Milaje smacking down John Walker.
14 (77.8%)

Bucky's arm falling off.
4 (22.2%)

Karli calling Sarah.
1 (5.6%)

Flag Smasher fight.
1 (5.6%)

Hoskins' death.
1 (5.6%)

Walker murdering that dude.
1 (5.6%)

the bloody shield
8 (44.4%)

is it time to talk about Sam and his wings?

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he's clearly a technopath
3 (18.8%)

he's half bird. on his dad's side.
4 (25.0%)

idk how he does it, I just want more of it
11 (68.8%)

I want some wings!
1 (6.2%)

Current positive feels for the Flag Smashers?

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Mean: 5.35 Median: 5 Std. Dev 2.40

1		1 (5.9%)
2		1 (5.9%)
3		2 (11.8%)
4		2 (11.8%)
5		4 (23.5%)
6		2 (11.8%)
7		1 (5.9%)
8		2 (11.8%)
9		1 (5.9%)
10		1 (5.9%)

How awesome is this next Walker v Sam/Bucky going to be?

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Mean: 8.65 Median: 9 Std. Dev 1.85

1		0 (0.0%)
2		0 (0.0%)
3		1 (5.9%)
4		0 (0.0%)
5		0 (0.0%)
6		1 (5.9%)
7		1 (5.9%)
8		3 (17.6%)
9		3 (17.6%)
10		8 (47.1%)

Would you take the serum?

View Answers

yes
3 (16.7%)

no
15 (83.3%)

Who wants some fan-art recs?
Sam and his suit from ep 3!
Sam and Bucky in the flowers again
Sarah Wilson
The difference between a sorcerer and a wizard
Zemo and Bucky

Please react, question, discuss, and capslock in the comments. Play nice and be aware that not everyone wants spoilers for future episodes or have read/watched the same articles and interviews.

Comments

[monicawoe]

This was one hell of an ep! The ending was horrifyingly brutal. It was clear Walker was gonna go off the rails, and I was sure he was going to take the serum the moment Karli opened the pack at the start of the episode.

Seb Stan always makes me cry when he does and that Wakanda flashback was no exception.

I was so excited about Ayo already, but then to have even more Dora Milaje and to see them kicking Walker’s ass? What a treat!

Sam talking to Karli was great, and I really think this is all heading towards him picking up the shield on his own terms, which is as it should be.

Zemo with his Turkish delight made me think of Jadis and I half expected a sled pulled by polar bears to be waiting outside lol. I do like that both Sam and Bucky are clearly wary of him.

Am still wondering who the power broker is and have not ruled out Sharon.

Only two eps left?!!

[readera]

Ohh I noticed the Turkish Delight but didn't put the connection together at the time I watched.

[oracne]

I was thinking of Narnia, too!

I have never seen Turkish Delight packaged like that. We always get it cut into cubes with powdered sugar all over it. Those looked like hard candies to me.

[readera]

I had so many feels this episode. That ending was Brutal.

Also yay for Dora Milaje & thier jurisdiction. 😁😁

I was distracted by the building that lots of the inside filming was in. It had lots of 6 pointed stars including a set of stained glass windows with tree of life patterns with stars. I suspect it was a former synagogue.

[oracne]

That building was gorgeous.

[chase_acow]

I loved that building and the windows too. Someone on tumblr also pointed out that the jewelry Karli was fidgeting with was a Hamsa symbol which has significance to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam which again is a sign of her desire for a home without take back borders and the entrenched hatred for each other from well, basically prehistory. So I wondered if they picked that location and those specific stars to evoke other religions in the back of our minds while showing the Captain American star with such specific condescension and violence.

Sam said it, symbols are not more important than people, but seeing that bloody sheild at the end instead of that destroyed human being was just such a gut punch for me.

The Dora Milage was freaking awesome. I hope they get Zemo in the end and we see him rotting in a Wakandan prison. I also just have so many feels about Bucky and his relationship with Wakanda as a nation and these people he became close to. There weren't any winners in this exchange, and I hope they get the chance to clear the air.

[oracne]

AYO AYO AYO!!!!! Did we get a name for the other Dora?

[chase_acow]

I haven't seen any names confirmed anywhere yet. I know there was a lot of hope they would let Ayo have her girlfriend (partner? I don't know much about them so I'm unsure what their level of relationship is) here and not be cowards anymore. I still have hope for the next couple of episodes.

[oracne]

Aneka is her lover in the comics. I suspect Marvel won't go there, but hopefully fanfiction will.

[prism0467]

1. The Wilsons are made of warrior win.

2. I'd like to beat the shit out of fake-ass Captain America.

3. Dora Milaje is all the way live, 24-7-365.

4. Thank you for sharing fan art links. I thoroughly enjoyed them!


That is all.

[chase_acow]

I hope we get more Sarah being awesome! I want her to get so many good things including whether or not she actually wants to keep that boat if she's going to be the one responsible for it. That line about America's mascot is so dang iconic. I loved it.

I guess I'm glad that Walker's issues aren't anything as basic as the American racism that is so easily taken for granted. I think they maybe leaned a little too heavily on his anger issues before they showed his fear, but y'know we all knew his psychotic break was coming. Like, I'm sure he took the serum, that pipe bending and the Flag Smasher's face was clearly meant to insinuate that, but what if he didn't? What if he killed that guy because he's just messed up, and that one bit of serum is still floating around out there up for grabs?

Absolutely! Fanartists are so talented in this fandom.

[lynnenne]

Best episode so far.

[chase_acow]

I completely agree! There was so many good points, and it felt a lot better paced and a more equal partnership with Sam and Bucky.

[fueschgast]

I like that you post recs and such.


Aw, nice, a flashback to Bucky in Wakanda!

That's a nice place filthy rich Zemo has there!

I can't believe Bucky felt the need to point out "The Avengers, not the Nazis." after Sam's "Hey, those are our friends you're talking about."

I like that they filmed in Prague, it looks so much like home.

Smart of Zemo to talk to the kids and bring candy.

Ah, finally solid information about who exactly the Displaced are. So the Flag Smashers do have a good cause, their problem is just that they don't know how to bring about real change without violence. How frustrating and very RL. I like that Sam empathizes.

I love how intimidated Zemo looks for a moment after Bucky smashed his tea. And after Sam points out the head tilt, Zemo is looking caught and moves his head upright again. *snort*

Aw, that Flag Smasher considers Karli their Captain America. It's kind of cute, even though he agrees with Karli's violent approach.

Sam is reasoning with Karli and I love it sooo much! I love him so much! And then Walker comes in and ruins the potential rapprochement.

While I'm glad that Zemo destroyed the remaining serum (albeit in a not very thorough way), I don't like that he tried to kill Karli. And FUUUUCK, Walker finds an intact vial.

Oh, good, Sam points out Zemo's hypocrisy regarding "Super Soldiers cannot be allowed to exist". And he finally thinks of asking Zemo how he feels about Bucky. Well, yeah, Bucky should probably be protected from Zemo, just in case.

The Dora Milaje beating up Walker: What a sight to behold! And Zemo, Sam & Bucky think so too, heee.
Ooh, Ayo knows how to separate Bucky from his shiny arm.
"They weren't even Super Soldiers." OMFG, get over yourself!

JFC, Karli, threatening Sarah and her kids is so not cool.

I had hoped for a better fate for Lemar, as he has a conscience and therefore deserves better. But he was also Walker's conscience, so it makes sense that Walker would go apeshit without Lemar.

I'm so glad there's lots of video evidence of new Cap losing his shit. Can't wait for him to lose this job!
Oh wow, this was so disturbing that the credits don't play the usual music. Reminds me of 24's silent clock.

[chase_acow]

I figured fanart would a good way to get a lot of different content. I can't really do fic recs because I only read Sam/Bucky here. : )

Zemo is a canny monster and I am excited to see what else he gets up to. I respect that neither Sam or Bucky get physical with a man who is technically their prisoner, but watching Bucky finally lose his patience and fling that cup was great. I like that he's smart and his machinations seem to be paying off a lot better than in CW, but I also want Sam and Bucky to get the last laugh as he gets carted off to a Wakandan prison because of them.

Re. Lemar Hoskins I saw someone on tumblr talking about the dead Black sidekick trope and wonder about the show leaning into it. I don't know near enough to have real opinions about subverting it or playing it straight here, but it does make me pause a little. He actually wasn't a bad guy but this cycle of vengeance is gonna be rough.

Sam's hero moment happening as he just relates to another human being in pain when no one else could see was a great alternative to anything we've seen Walker or Steve do, and I too love him so much. I love what they're doing with Sam characterization, I really enjoyed the comics version of Sam and I'm glad that Mackie is getting so much to work with.

[fueschgast]

I respect that neither Sam or Bucky get physical with a man who is technically their prisoner
Whoa, that didn't occur to me!

The trope is another reason why I didn't expect Lemar to be killed off.

[goodbyebird]

Walker can't even form himself into a tiny canonball as he shield-jumps through windows, clearly they completely whiffed his training. Saw it coming that his partner would be sacrificed for his mainpain :/ I don't appreciate the show getting him involved in the "would you take the serum" discussion beforehand, that stunt is 100% on Walker's shoulders, and fuck that guy. He might as well have unzipped his pants and urinated on the shield in that last scene.

The FEELS in Bucky's opening sequence though! Very happy to have gotten a tiny bit of him recovering in Wakanda. Absolutely knew they'd be able to disarm him though lol.

Sam continues to own my heart. What a solid guy, and his fighting is never not gonna be cool to watch. Loving everything they're doing with his wings.

Zemo doesn't make sense to me. After the big showdown in Endgame with aliens, robots, and witches oh my! plus actual alien god-like invaders, being this concerned about super soldiers tipping the scales too much doesn't really hold water any more? Like, what's the plan here, my dude? You can't fix this, the genie is officially out of the bottle. (I did like that he agreed about Steve, I'm so insulted about the new Captain Imposter that I'll take any crumb I can get I guess :p)

[chase_acow]

You make so many good points! : ) Walker would never want to make himself that small even if he could. I'm probably overthinking it, but did he take the serum? Or would it even have time to mess with him? Was that at the end all him anyway?

Bucky, man. I just need him to actively emote with sympathy about someone else. There's a lot going on under the surface, and his actions around Sam are showing a thawing, but I like words. Sam used his words so well this episode, I think it'll probably be my favorite. He's so good, and those effing wings, just steal my heart why don't you?

I wish they'd address your point about Zemo too, but he probably sees them as equal threats and the super soldiers are here now.

[goodbyebird]

1) he took the serum after the rude Wakandan ladies that weren't even supersoldiers waaahhhh kicked his easily bruised ego. But he's been wanting it since day one, since he seems to believe that's what it takes to be Captain America, and not, you know, doing it for the right reasons, being compassionate, and not giving a fuck about impressing your superiors.
2) that was 100% him. Serum hasn't turned any of them into ragemonsters, they seem completely in control of their faculties.

[fueschgast]

DISARM! I can't believe I didn't think of that word!

[goodbyebird]

*g*